‘Today Pakistan stands as an epicenter of turmoil for the world’

The conversation that released on March 16 runs nearly three-hours long. Edited excerpts from the interview:On how he approaches foreign policy My critics often tried to corner me on one point (in 2013 when he became the BJP’s PM candidate). It became a topic of widespread discussion. ‘Modi is nothing more than a state leader’; ‘what does he know of foreign policy?’; does he even understand global geopolitics?’I was asked this question in every interview. I gave a very well thought out answer at the time. I said, “I won’t lay out my entire foreign policy in an interview, nor is it needed.”That said, India will neither allow itself to be looked down upon, nor will it ever look up to anyone. India will now see eye-to-eye with her counterparts. This was my belief in 2013, and it still lies at the heart of my foreign policy.On how peace can be achieved in UkraineWe seek neither to wage war against nature, nor to foster strife among nations. We stand for peace. And wherever we can act as peacemakers, we have gladly embraced that responsibility.I have a close relationship with Russia and Ukraine alike. I can sit with President Putin and say that this is not the time for war; and I can also tell President Zelensky, in a friendly way, that brother, regardless of how many people stand with you in the world, there will never be a resolution on the battlefield. The resolution will only come when both Ukraine and Russia come to the negotiating table. medium119308878Ukraine may hold countless discussions with its allies, but it will bear no fruit. Discussions must include both parties instead. Initially, it was challenging to find peace, but now, the current situation presents an opportunity for meaningful and productive talks between Ukraine and Russia.There has been a lot of suffering. Even the Global South has suffered. The world has been grappling with a food, fuel, and fertilizer crisis. So, the global community should unite in the pursuit of peace.As for me, I have always maintained that I stand with peace. I am not neutral. I have a stance – I am for peace. 119308898 Donald Trump as a friend and a leaderWe had an event in Houston, ‘Howdy Modi’. Both President Trump and I were there...and the entire stadium was packed.A massive crowd at an event in the US is a huge moment. While packed stadiums are common in sports, this was extraordinary for a political rally. The Indian diaspora had gathered in large numbers. Both of us delivered speeches, and he sat down below, among the audience, listening to me speak.Now, that’s his humility. The President of the United States sitting in the audience, while I spoke from the stage, was a remarkable gesture on his part. After finishing my speech, I stepped down. And as we all know, security in the US is extremely strict and thorough. I went over to thank him and casually said, “If you don’t mind, why don’t we take a lap around the stadium? There are so many people here, let’s walk, wave, and greet them.” mediumhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_wwNScNEX0In American life, it’s almost impossible for the President to walk into a crowd of thousands. But without even a moment’s hesitation, he agreed and started walking with me. His entire security detail was thrown off guard. But for me, that moment was truly touching, it showed me that this man had courage. He makes his own decisions, but also, he trusted me and my lead in that moment enough to walk with me into the crowd. It was that sense of mutual trust, a strong bond between us, that I truly witnessed that day.Key takeaways from meeting with Team TrumpI have observed President Trump both during his first term and now in his second run. This time, he seems far more prepared than before. He has a clear roadmap in his mind, with well-defined steps, each one designed to lead him toward his goals.I also had the chance to meet members of his team, and I truly believe he has put together a strong, capable group. And with such a strong team, I feel they are fully capable of implementing President Trump’s vision. Great meeting you today @elonmusk ! We had multifaceted conversations on issues ranging from energy to spirituality. http://t.co/r0mzwNbTyN pic.twitter.com/IVwOy5SlMV

— Narendra Modi (@narendramodi) June 21, 2023 I met several people: Tulsi Gabbard, Vivek Ramaswamy, Elon Musk, and there was a family-like atmosphere.As for Elon Musk, I’ve known him from my time as Chief Minister. He was there with his family and children. Now, with his Doge mission, he is incredibly excited about how it's progressing.Can India and Pakistan have good ties? I would like to delve into periods of our history the world may be unfamiliar with. Before 1947, during the struggle for Independence, everyone was fighting side by side, shoulder to shoulder. And the nation was eagerly waiting to celebrate the freedom, the joy of independence.Now, we could have a lengthy discussion on what led to the events that unfolded. But the fact remains that the policymakers of the time agreed to India's partition. And they agreed to the Muslim side's demand of carving out a separate nation. With hearts weighed down by grief and silent tears, Indians embraced this painful reality.However, what unfolded was an immediate, heartbreaking saga of bloodshed. Trains filled with bloodied, wounded people and corpses started arriving from Pakistan. It was a harrowing sight.After getting their own way [Muslims getting their own country], we expected them to live and let live. And yet, they chose not to foster a harmonious coexistence. Time and again they decided to be at odds with India. They have waged a proxy war against us. Don't mistake this for ideology.What kind of ideology thrives on bloodshed and the export of terror? And we are not the sole victims of this menace. Wherever terror strikes in the world, the trail somehow leads to Pakistan. Prime Minister, Shri Narendra Modi with the Prime Minister of Pakistan, Mr. Nawaz Sharif, in New Delhi today. pic.twitter.com/lbB6WNLvE2

— PIB India (@PIB_India) May 27, 2014 Let's take the September 11 attacks for example. The main mastermind behind it, Osama Bin Laden, where did he eventually emerge from? He had taken refuge in Pakistan. The world has recognized that. In a way, terrorism and the terrorist mindset are deeply rooted in Pakistan.Today, it [Pakistan] stands as an epicenter of turmoil, not just for India, but for the world. And we have repeatedly asked them what good can come from this path?We have urged them to abandon the path of state-sponsored terrorism for good. What do you hope to gain by surrendering your nation to lawless forces? I've even personally travelled to Lahore in the pursuit of peace. When I became Prime Minister, I specially invited Pakistan to my swearing-in ceremony. So we could turn over a new leaf. Yet, every noble attempt at fostering peace was met with hostility and betrayal.We sincerely hope that wisdom prevails upon them, and they choose the path of peace. I believe even the people of Pakistan long for peace. Because even they must be weary of living in strife and unrest.How ties with China can be revivedOld records suggest that at one point, India and China alone accounted for more than 50% of the world’s GDP. That’s how massive India’s contribution was. And I believe our ties have been extremely strong with deep cultural connections. If we look back centuries, there’s no real history of conflict between us. It has always been about learning from each other and understanding one another. At one time, Buddhism had a profound influence in China, and that philosophy originally came from here.Our relationship should remain just as strong in the future. It should continue to grow. Of course, differences are natural, when two neighbouring countries exist, occasional disagreements are bound to happen. Even within a family, not everything is always perfect. PM @narendramodi and President #XiJinping take a stroll through the ancient Cave Temple, a @UNESCO world Heritage site in #Mamallapuram #ModiXiSummit #ModixijinpingMeet pic.twitter.com/jelmWFBvmM

— PIB India (@PIB_India) October 11, 2019 But our focus is to ensure that these differences don’t turn into disputes. That’s what we actively work toward. Instead of discord, we emphasize dialogue, because only through dialogue can we build a stable, cooperative relationship that serves the best interests of both nations.It is true that there have been ongoing border disputes between us. And in 2020, the incidents along the border created significant tensions between our countries. However, after my recent meeting with President Xi, we have seen a return to normalcy at the border. We are now working to restore conditions to how they were before 2020. Slowly but surely, trust, enthusiasm, and energy will return. But of course, it will take some time, since there’s been a five-year gap.Our cooperation isn’t just beneficial, it’s also essential for global stability and prosperity.And since the 21st century is Asia’s century, we want India and China to compete in a healthy and natural way. Competition is not a bad thing, but it should never turn into conflict.How can we avoid a global war?COVID exposed the limitations of every nation. No matter how much we consider ourselves as a great nation, no matter how progressive we think we are, or how scientifically advanced we believe we’ve become, everyone has their own way of looking at things. In the end, we all found ourselves on the same ground. Every country in the world faced this reality.At that time, it felt like the world would learn from it. That we would move toward a more unified world. Just as a geopolitical order emerged after World War II, many thought something similar would happen post-COVID. But unfortunately, instead of moving toward peace, the world became even more fragmented, ushering in a period of uncertainty. And the wars have only made it worse.Watch the full interview : mediumhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPUtA3W-7_II believe that modern wars are no longer just about resources or interests. Today, I see so many kinds of conflicts happening. Physical battles often get discussed, [but] struggles are happening in every domain. International organizations that were once powerful have become almost irrelevant, no real reforms are happening. Institutions like the UN are failing to fulfil their roles.People who disregard international laws and rules continue to act freely, and no one can stop them. In such situations, the prudent choice for everyone is to let go of conflict and move toward cooperation. And, a development-driven approach is the way forward, expansionism will not work.As I’ve said before, the world is interdependent and interconnected. Every nation needs one another, no one can stand alone. And from all the different forums I attend, one thing is clear, everyone is deeply worried about these conflicts. We can only hope that peace is restored very soon.Lessons from the 2002 Gujarat riotsI'd like to paint you a clearer picture of the 12 to 15 months leading up to that, so you can fully understand, uh, the atmosphere of that time. Take December 24, 1999, roughly three years earlier, an Indian flight from Kathmandu to Delhi was hijacked, redirected to Afghanistan, and landed in Kandahar. Hundreds of Indian passengers were held hostage. It caused massive turmoil across India, as people faced life-and-death uncertainty.Then, in the year 2000, the Red Fort in Delhi was attacked by terrorists. Yet another crisis struck the nation, intensifying fear and turmoil. On September 11, 2001, the Twin Towers in America faced a devastating terror attack, once again shocking the entire world. Because ultimately, the people behind these attacks are driven by a similar mindset.Then, in October 2001, terrorists attacked the Jammu and Kashmir Assembly. Soon after, on December 13, 2001, India’s Parliament was targeted. Within just eight to ten months, these major global terrorist attacks took place, violent incidents that led to bloodshed and the loss of innocent lives. In such a tense environment, even the smallest spark can ignite unrest. The situation had already become extremely volatile.In such times, suddenly, on October 7, 2001, I was given the responsibility of becoming Chief Minister of Gujarat. This was an enormous challenge. At that time, Gujarat was recovering from a devastating earthquake. medium119309598My first major task as Chief Minister was overseeing the rehabilitation of survivors. This was a crucial task, and from day one after my oath, I immersed myself in it. I was a person who had no prior experience with the government. I had never been part of any administration, never even served in government before. I had never contested an election, never even been elected as an MLA. For the first time in my life, I had to face elections. On February 24, 2002, I became an MLA.On February 27, 2002, we were seated in the assembly for the budget session, and that same day, it had been just three days since I'd become a state representative, when suddenly the horrific Godhra incident occurred. It was a tragedy of unimaginable magnitude, people were burned alive.You can imagine, against the backdrop of incidents like the Kandahar hijacking, the attack on Parliament, or even 9/11, and then to have so many people killed and burned alive, you can imagine how tense and volatile the situation was. Of course, this was tragic for everyone, everyone prefers peace.The perception that these were the biggest riots ever is actually misinformation. If you review the data from before 2002, you'll see that Gujarat faced frequent riots, curfews were constantly being imposed somewhere.Communal violence could erupt over trivial issues, like kite-flying contests or even minor bicycle collisions. Before 2002, Gujarat witnessed over 250 significant riots. The riots in 1969 lasted nearly six months. So, there was a long history long before I was in the picture. But that one tragic incident in 2002 became a sparking point, leading some people towards violence. Yet, the judiciary thoroughly investigated the matter. At that time, our political opponents were in power, and naturally, they wanted all allegations against us to stick. Despite their relentless efforts, the judiciary analyzed the situation meticulously, twice, and ultimately, found us completely innocent.Those who were truly responsible have faced justice from the courts. But the most important thing is that in Gujarat, where riots used to happen somewhere or the other every year, there hasn’t been a single major riot in 22 years. Gujarat remains completely peaceful.Part 2: ‘I always gravitate toward the bright side’